Hills for breakfast, hold the gnats

May 19, 2024

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Location:

Snoqualmie,WA,

Member Since:

Jan 31, 2008

Gender:

Female

Goal Type:

Boston Qualifier

Running Accomplishments:

Marathon PR: 4:17 at Portland Marathon, Oct. 2007

5K PR 24:37 2009

10K PR 52:58 2010

Have run 22 marathons to date.

No injuries, ever. :)

Short-Term Running Goals:

Qualify for Boston (4:05 for my age/gender) - or, perhaps, to use my desire for a BQ as a way to get in the hated speed work so I don't just get slower and slower over the years. This goal is "under (re)construction" right now, until I figure out whether it is truly what I want. :)

Long-Term Running Goals:

To continue learning about myself and about running, and to enjoy being a fit, happy runner for life. To always know why I am running and the best way to get the most (both mentally and physically) out of my runs. To keep a sense of humor and remain optimistic about myself as a runner. To enjoy running more and more with every passing year.

Personal:

Baby boomer generation. Jogged a little in my 20's and 30's. Started running seriously in 2002. Low-carb runner since January 2010.

I love long runs and cold, cloudy weather. I don't believe in "junk miles." I am an optimist. I adore dark chocolate, fog, my family, and knitting -- not necessarily in that order.

"As every runner knows, running is about more than just putting one foot in front of the other; it is about our lifestyle and who we are." -- Joan Benoit Samuelson

Favorite Blogs:

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Miles:	This week:	0.00	Month:	0.00	Year:	0.00
Brooks ST3 Lifetime Miles:						891.35
Vibram Five Fingers KSO Lifetime Miles:						23.77
Brooks ST3 II Lifetime Miles:						965.17
Lunaracers II Lifetime Miles:						198.23
Mizuno Wave Universe 3 Lifetime Miles:						104.14
Asics Piranha Lifetime Miles:						536.83
RunAmocs (Softstar) Lifetime Miles:						16.23
Piranha II Lifetime Miles:						219.53

Wed, Jan 21, 2009

Easy Miles	Marathon Pace Miles	Threshold Miles	VO2 Max Miles	Total Distance
7.69	0.00	0.00	0.00	7.69

Objective: easy run

Conditions at 5:00 am: 34F, wind 10 mph, gusting to 18, clear

20 min. strength work

How many times have you read this statement? "Running is such a simple sport; just put on some shoes and go..." It should be illegal. Or, perhaps anyone who wants to print it should be forced to do just that -- in my neighborhood, in the dark, in January -- just put on some shoes and go. I timed myself at 5 minutes this morning, from "time to go" to actually being on the sidewalk. Maybe it's just me and my style, but there is an awful lot more than shoes to put on.

A couple of years ago Marathon & Beyond (Vol. 10, # 5) did a series of 3 articles by Guy Avery called "Training and Racing Within Your Personal Marathon Zone." At the risk of over-simplifying Avery's article (which provides quite a bit of information beyond this little tidbit), he advises the runner to add six minutes to the "realistic" goal time when calculating pace "for purposes of training recommendations:" miles 1&2 (of the marathon) @ MP + 30 seconds, miles 3 & 4 @ MP + 20 seconds, and miles 5 & 6 @ MP + 10 seconds. "Essentially, this cutdown gets you to start slowly and ease in to training and racing at your operative goal pace." He points out that there are many variations on this cutback formula.

Last summer I asked what people thought about this on another marathon forum and the response was surprisingly negative. "Even pacing is best" was the counterargument. One 2:40 marathoner whom I respect a great deal warned me that to be 2 minutes behind goal at mile 7 is not something she would intentionally do. I proceded to attempt even pacing at Portland and had a very bad race, partly due to inadequate warm up, imo. At CIM, I started slowly and had a wonderful race, though not my fastest.

So now I'm back to thinking about Avery's cutback formula. In order to use it, one's pace after mile 6 would have to be that much faster. On the other hand, that faster pace would be maintained for fewer miles, and with a better warm up period. Avery goes on to describe why it works, how it works, and all the advantages, so I may be over-simplifying it here. I continue to ponder...

Red Nike Structure Triax 11 Miles: 7.69

Comments

From Bonnie on Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 11:19:16

I like Guy's idea - but I disagree with his formulaic approach. I have never been able to race well when I seek a specific time goal for every mile. For me anyway, it is much more about trusting how you feel at these landmark mile posts. I actually do the same thing, but without having an expected "time" and instead having a expected "feel" . Whenever I have used this in my races (or training runs actually) I have surprised myself at how well I can do the last 20% of a race.

Guy Avery coached some of my friends when I lived in Nashville, most of them improved a lot under his tutelage!

From Bonnie on Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 11:24:37

oh, by the way, I also believe that in order to run Guy's cut-back idea in a race you have to train the same way (it is hard to implement something on race day that you don't normally do in training -- "you play as you practice").

what is up with the gusting wind there?? yuck, I really despise wind more than rain/sleet/snow.

From Carolyn in Colorado on Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 11:27:52

I don't know about the specific pace calculations, but I agree with the general principle of starting slow and getting progressively faster. I run that way all the time. Maybe it just suits my personal style better, but I run much better with a significant warm up. Of course I'm no expert.

From Carolyn in Colorado on Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 11:29:50

In your 5 minute time this morning from "time to go," what does "time to go" mean? Is it rolling out of bed or something else? I was a full 40 minutes from rolling out of bed to on the sidewalk and moving. That included eating a bowl of cereal, getting dressed, and waiting for my Garmin to find satellites.

From Snoqualmie on Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 13:26:49

Thanks for the ideas, Bonnie. I am not sure how I would do it "by feel." I tend to mistrust my feelings in a long race because of all the times I've blown it. I like to keep an eye on the Garmin, and I've often said to myself after checking it "whoa, back off!" Or, later in the race "move!" I guess that's something to work on in training.

One thing I disliked (or maybe just don't understand) about Avery's article is his conservative goal setting. It's all based on current fitness, and yet you'd think that's the one thing that is going to change dramatically if you train well. (eg marathon goal pace = to half m. time doubled plus 8 minutes)

Re the wind: that's our lot in life from Oct to Mar. here. We live at the mouth of a mountain pass between two very different weather zones.

Carolyn - "time to go" is about 30 min after I get up. I get up, dress, feed cats, drink coffee, use potty, check weather... somehow it adds up. And the gear comes on and that seems to take about 5 min. to gather, put on, adjust.

From JD on Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 14:36:45

"just put on your shoes and go..." yeah, that's pretty funny. Another good one is "running is a poor mans sport" haha! Let's see: Shoes every 6-8 weeks, various apparel for all weather conditions, water bottles, garmin/sports watch, fees for races/travel to races, extra dietary food/supplements...and time. Probably not a lot of homeless folks on the roads training for marathons.

I just run how I feel. It makes sense to warm up before a run. I don't have the discipline I guess to follow such specific paces and such. I make up my workouts usually as I go. Although it's good to have some goals and structure in your training, otherwise you'd never get anywhere.

From snoqualmie on Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 14:38:30

Oh yeah - "poor man's sport!" lol On which planet?

From Metcalf Running on Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 15:06:17

Interesting ideas... lots of food for though. I tend to be more like JD. I think I will adopt a new "New Years Resolution" to have more discipline like Bonnie and Snoq :)

From Dale on Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 16:57:15

I like the idea of starting a marathon a bit slow but IMHO 6 miles seems excessive. For other races, I will run a few warmup miles so it's not a factor, but I know for everyday runs, it usually takes me at least a mile to get loosened up, so a slower marathon start makes sense for me. I've found that intentionally trying to hold back combined with race day exuberance usually has me pretty close to my goal pace, so I can't say I've had much luck in the practice of holding back.

Look at it this way....it'll only cost you a couple of minutes in one marathon to try it out and see if it works for you. If so, you'll wind up PR'ing and won't even notice the minutes. But I agree with Bonnie....you'll need to practice at least a few times on longer runs to see if it makes sense.

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